WoW: Forever Rogue and Warlock changes: Mutilate, axes, Banes
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Blizzard's Rogue and Warlock class deep dive for World of Warcraft: Forever (WoW: Forever for short) went up on 7 October. Blizzard's post lists their ability and talent changes. The short version: every Rogue can now learn one-handed axes, and Sap no longer breaks Stealth. New Rogue talents include Mutilate and Venom. Warlocks get Banes and pets that scale with the Warlock's own stats.
The Rogue is a sneaky melee fighter. It moves unseen in Stealth, uses Poisons, and spends Energy, the resource behind its attacks. Its attacks build Combo Points, charges that a finishing move then spends. The Warlock is a caster of dark Shadow and Fire magic who summons demons to fight beside it. Its Curses are spells that harm or weaken a target. Blizzard says both classes may keep changing through the beta, the test version people can play before release. For the classes so far, see our pieces on the Hunter and Druid, the Priest and Warrior and the Mage and Shaman.
How do talents work in WoW: Forever?
Talents are upgrades you buy with points to shape a character inside their class, laid out in three trees for each of these classes. In our talent calculator, rows further down a tree need more points spent in it first.
Blizzard says talents start at level 10 and keep a familiar structure. The one-point milestone talents at 11, 21 and 31 points stay, and a new one joins at 16 points. Blizzard calls these gold medal talents. The tables below list the ones the post names.
To change your talents, Legacy talents included, you visit a class trainer, the in-game teacher for your class, in one of the major cities. Dual Specialization, a second saved talent setup, opens at level 40.
What changes for Rogues?
A Rogue's three trees are Assassination (poisons and daggers), Combat (hard-hitting direct damage) and Subtlety (combat tricks and Bleeds, wounds that keep hurting). Here are the baseline changes, the ones every Rogue gets.
| Ability | The change |
|---|---|
| Poisons | More charges on every poison, and they now work alongside weightstones and sharpening stones |
| Sap | Puts an enemy out of action, and using it no longer breaks Stealth |
| Distract | Also lowers affected enemies' Stealth detection for 10 seconds |
| Feint | Twice the threat reduction (threat is how badly monsters want to hit you) |
| Expose Armor | Cuts armor as much as 5 stacks of Sunder Armor, an ability of the Warrior class, at about the same level |
| Axes | Rogues can now learn one-handed axes |
Blizzard says the Sap change is because it wants Rogues to bring crowd control, a way to take an enemy out of a fight, that needs their own skills, like Stealth and Distract, to set up. It says this helps parties and raids, the small and large teams players form, when a pack of monsters is too big to tank safely. To tank is to hold the monsters' attention while others fight. The Distract change has a catch: enemy players will know a Rogue is nearby.
Expose Armor also no longer stops a Warrior using Sunder Armor on the same target, though Sunder Armor still won't replace Expose Armor unless its effect is weaker. Blizzard says that lets Warriors build threat without Expose Armor getting in the way. On axes, it says Rogues include brigands and outlaws, who often carry axes in fantasy and medieval stories.
Rogue milestone talents
| Tree | Points | Talent | What it does |
|---|---|---|---|
| Assassination | 16 | Cold Blood | Now the 16-point talent, not the 21, and also works with Mutilate |
| Assassination | 21 | Mutilate | New: 60 Energy, strikes with both weapons (both must be daggers), more damage on a poisoned target, 2 Combo Points |
| Assassination | 31 | Venom | New finisher: 25 Energy, 30% more Poison damage and 10% more chance to apply Poisons, its length set by the Combo Points spent |
| Combat | 16 | Flawless Execution | New: Eviscerate, a finishing move, costs 10 less Energy |
| Subtlety | 16 | Premeditation | Now the 16-point talent, not the 31, and lasts 20 seconds |
| Subtlety | 31 | Thousand Cuts | New: each time Rupture deals damage, your next Hemorrhage or Backstab costs 3 less Energy, stacking up to 5 times |
Vigor used to be Assassination's 31-point talent. It's now a 2-point talent on row 5 with the same total effect. Blizzard expects Assassination Rogues to spend their finishers keeping Venom and Slice and Dice up, with damage finishers like Rupture and Eviscerate a lower priority. Improved Poisons now also gives a large chance for a Poison not to use up a charge.
Combat loses four weapon talents: Dagger, Mace, Sword and Fist Weapon Specialization. A new row 5 talent, Hack and Slash, combines them and adds a bonus for axes. Axes get the same bonus as swords, a chance at an extra attack. Hack and Slash's mace bonus now lets attacks ignore some of the target's armor instead of a chance to stun. Subtlety loses Sleight of Hand and Deadliness.
Blizzard wants Combat and Subtlety to support both Backstab and Sinister Strike builds, two Rogue attacks. Aggression now boosts Backstab in Combat. In Subtlety, Quietus adds damage to Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike and Hemorrhage against targets below 35% health. Cutthroat gives Backstab a chance to let your next Ambush work without Stealth.
Our favourite is Mutilate, the new 21-point talent in Assassination. For 60 Energy it strikes with both hands, and both must be daggers. It hits harder on a poisoned target and gives 2 Combo Points. Our reading: two daggers, two hits, two points, a talent that knows exactly what it's for.
What changes for Warlocks?
A Warlock's three trees are Affliction (damage over time and draining), Demonology (the Warlock and its demon) and Destruction (Fire and Shadow spells). Here are the baseline changes, the ones every Warlock gets.
| Ability | The change |
|---|---|
| Curse of Agony, Curse of Doom | Now Banes, a separate group for damaging Curses: one Bane per Warlock on a target, and anything that worked with Curses works with Banes |
| Curse of the Elements | Now applies to all magic damage |
| Curse of Shadows | Removed |
| Firestone | Now a weapon imbue, a spell on your weapon: more Fire damage and critical strike chance (a critical strike is an extra-hard hit) |
| Spellstone | Now a weapon imbue: more Shadow damage and faster spellcasting |
| Life Tap | Now scales with Spirit, one of the game's stats |
| Drain Soul | Each tick has a rising chance to give a Soul Shard, until one is certain |
| Pets | Now scale from their summoner's stats |
Firestone and Spellstone now stack with other temporary enchantments like wizard oil. A Soul Shard is an item some Warlock spells use up.
Warlock milestone talents
| Tree | Points | Talent | What it does |
|---|---|---|---|
| Affliction | 16 | Curse of Exhaustion | Moves up from row 5 to row 4, and slows the target by 30% |
| Affliction | 31 | Wrack | New: Shadow damage every second, and 10% more damage from your other Shadow damage-over-time spells for 6 seconds |
| Demonology | 11 | Demonic Sacrifice | Redesigned: the effects last 2 hours and change by demon |
| Demonology | 16 | Fel Domination | Now needs Master Summoner first |
| Demonology | 21 | Soul Link | Now the 21-point talent, not the 31 |
| Demonology | 31 | Demonic Pact | New: needs Soul Link; summoning a different pet no longer cancels Demonic Sacrifice |
| Destruction | 16 | Conflagrate | Moves up from row 7 to row 4 |
| Destruction | 21 | Bane of Havoc | New: for 5 minutes, 15% of your damage to other targets also hits the cursed one |
| Destruction | 31 | Incinerate | New: needs Bane of Havoc; a 2.5-second Fire cast, 25% more damage if Immolate is on the target |
Demonic Sacrifice gives up your demon for a bonus. Now the Imp raises Shadow damage, the Voidwalker restores Mana and the Succubus or Incubus raises Fire damage. The Felhunter restores Health. Resummoning the sacrificed pet still cancels the effect under Demonic Pact. Blizzard says Demonic Pact lets Warlocks, for the first time, have Demonic Sacrifice and Master Demonologist at once.
The post says Affliction loses six talents: Improved Curse of Weakness, Improved Drain Life, Improved Drain Mana, Improved Curse of Exhaustion, Grim Reach and Dark Pact. Demonology loses six too: Improved Healthstone, Fel Intellect, Fel Stamina, Improved Subjugate Demon, Improved Firestone and Improved Spellstone. Destruction loses Improved Firebolt, Improved Lash of Pain, Devastation, Improved Immolate and Emberstorm.
In the post, Destructive Reach moves up to row 1 and now works on all damaging spells. Blizzard says that puts it in easy reach of every Warlock specialization. Ruin moves up to row 3 and is now a 5-point talent with the same total effect. Demonic Brand, new in Demonology, makes your pet's next 2 attacks deal Fire or Shadow damage. Blizzard says a recent change means a pet that doesn't tank, like the Imp, gets no extra threat from it. A tanking pet like the Voidwalker does.
Our favourite is Bane of Havoc, the new 21-point talent in Destruction. Put it on one enemy, and for 5 minutes 15% of the damage you deal to anything else lands on that enemy too. Our reading: two fights for the price of one spell, which is about as Warlock as it gets.
Compared: the post against our talent calculator today
Our talent calculator is built from the beta's own game files, now Forever build 1.60.1.70450 of 16 October. Every new talent the post names for these two classes is in it except Malediction, which this build drops from Affliction. Every talent the post says is removed is gone except Grim Reach, back on row 2 of Affliction. The milestone talents above sit at the points the post gives. Five details follow, side by side.
| The calculator shows | The post | Our reading |
|---|---|---|
| Puncturing Wounds adds 10%, 20% or 30% Backstab critical strike chance by rank, and 5%, 10% or 15% for Mutilate | "a lesser percentage" for Mutilate | The two agree: Mutilate gets half |
| Venom lasts 9 seconds with 1 Combo Point, up to 21 seconds with 5 | Duration set by Combo Points spent | The calculator adds the numbers the post leaves out |
| Destructive Reach sits on row 1 of Destruction, but its text in this build reaches further with Destruction spells only | Works on all damaging spells | The build is newer than the post. Grim Reach does the same for Affliction spells, so this build seems to split the two again |
| Demonic Brand has 3 ranks: your pet's next 2, 4 or 6 attacks | The pet's next 2 attacks | We read the post as describing the first rank |
| Demonic Brand says a branded attack has high threat if it deals Shadow damage | Shadow damage is high threat, and a tanking pet like the Voidwalker gains extra threat while the Imp doesn't | The two now agree on Shadow damage, after the beta's build of 8 October rewrote the talent's text, though the text doesn't say which pets deal it |
We refresh the calculator as new beta builds appear. The Rogue class page and the Warlock class page show which of their abilities are new since Classic Era, the re-released original game.
Strengths and weaknesses
Blizzard sums up each class like this.
- Rogues remain the masters of Stealth, with abilities like Pickpocket, Distract, Sap and Garrote usable from it. They alone get Poisons. Blizzard says they're welcome in any party or raid, the small and large groups players team up in, for Stealth and control. They also have the highest potential single-target melee damage in the game.
- Warlocks are still physically weak and rely on their demon pets for protection. But Blizzard says they now deal damage to compete with any other spellcaster, in three completely different styles.
Common questions
What is Mutilate in WoW: Forever?
The Rogue is one of the game's classes, a sneaky melee fighter. Mutilate is a new Rogue talent in World of Warcraft: Forever, an upgrade bought with points. A Rogue has three talent trees, and Mutilate sits in Assassination, the poison and dagger tree. Blizzard makes it that tree's 21-point milestone talent: it costs 1 point and opens once 20 points are in the tree, so your 21st point buys it. It costs 60 Energy, the resource behind its attacks, and strikes with both weapons, which must both be daggers. It hits harder against a poisoned target and gives 2 Combo Points, the charges a Rogue builds up and then spends.
What are Banes for Warlocks in WoW: Forever?
The Warlock is one of the game's classes, a caster who uses dark magic and summoned demons. Curses are its spells that harm or weaken a target. In World of Warcraft: Forever, Blizzard turns Curse of Agony and Curse of Doom into Banes, a separate group for the damaging ones. Each Warlock can keep only one Bane on a target. Blizzard says this separates damage from the utility Curses, and anything that worked with Curses now works with Banes too.
Does Sap break Stealth in WoW: Forever?
The Rogue is one of the game's classes, and Stealth is its way of moving unseen. Sap is a Rogue ability that puts an enemy out of action. In World of Warcraft: Forever, Blizzard says using Sap no longer breaks Stealth. Blizzard says it wants Rogues to bring this kind of control to groups, for when a pack of monsters is too big to tank safely. To tank is to hold the monsters' attention while others fight.
Written by 0hp from the publisher's own announcement, linked above, and every specific in it was checked against that page by a second pass before it published. Independent, and not affiliated with the publisher. Dates are announced or labelled as estimates. How this site is written, and how to correct it.
